Average Shocks and Struts Replacement Cost (What to Expect)
Your car’s suspension system is a complex network of parts working together to provide a safe, comfortable ride. This system relies heavily on shocks and struts. These components absorb road imperfections and control your car’s movement, but they don’t last forever.
When the time comes for replacement, knowing what to expect can save you time, money, and stress. Let’s break down the average costs associated with shock and strut replacement.
Differences Between Shocks and Struts
Shocks and struts are both vital suspension components, but they have different functions.
- Shocks (shock absorbers) are standalone parts that dampen the bounce and rebound of your vehicle’s springs, improving ride comfort and handling.
- Struts are more complex, combining several suspension elements into one unit. They include a coil spring and are major component in a vehicle’s steering system. Struts not only absorb shock but also support the vehicle’s weight and help maintain proper wheel alignment.
Most vehicles have either a shock or strut on each wheel, not both. A common configuration is struts in the front and shocks in the rear, though some vehicles use one type for all four wheels.
Struts typically have a more significant impact on ride quality and handling compared to shocks because they affect the vehicle’s alignment, steering, and overall suspension geometry. However, both worn shocks and struts can lead to decreased vehicle control, increased stopping distances, and uneven tire wear if not addressed promptly.
Strut Replacement Cost
Best places to order parts? See: 19 Best Online Auto Parts Stores
When replacing struts, it’s almost always best to replace them in pairs, even if you believe one of them is still good. Doing so prevents handling and suspension issues that could lead to unsafe driving conditions or expensive damage.
Average Cost Breakdown:
- Total cost for a pair of struts: $450 to $1,500
- Parts: $300 to $1,200 ($150 to $600 per strut assembly)
- Labor: $150 to $300
Dealership costs are typically higher, commonly exceeding $1,000 for a front strut replacement. On some high-end or luxury vehicles, it’s not unheard of to get quotes approaching $2,000 per axle (2 struts).
To get the best price, always try to get at least 2-3 quotes from reputable dealers, shops, or independent mechanics.
The actual cost of strut replacement varies based on several factors:
- Brand of struts (common brands include KYB, Monroe, Gabriel, and Bilstein)
- Your vehicle’s year, make, and model
- Where you have the work done
Important Note: After strut (or shock) replacement, a wheel alignment is necessary. When getting back a quote to replace your struts, confirm whether the cost of a wheel alignment is included or an extra expense.
In general, a 2-wheel alignment (if only front struts are replaced) is somewhere in the $50 to $100 range. If getting struts or shocks replaced on every corner, a 4-wheel alignment costing $100 to $200 is necessary.
See Also: MacPherson vs Double Wishbone Suspension
Shock Replacement Cost
Like struts, shocks should always be replaced in pairs to maintain balanced vehicle handling. Shock replacement is generally less expensive than strut replacement due to their simpler design.
Average Cost Breakdown:
- Total cost for a pair of shocks: $300 to $650
- Parts: $100 to $300 ($50 to $150 per shock absorber)
- Labor: $200 to $350 (typically 2 hours of work)
For all four shocks, double the above costs for a rough estimate.
Similar to struts, cost of shock replacement varies based on the brand of shocks, your vehicle make/model, and where you go to have the replacement done.
Important Notes:
- Luxury vehicles (e.g., Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, Lexus) and sports cars often have higher-than-average costs due to more advanced shock absorber designs.
- Some vehicles use shocks all around instead of a combination of struts and shocks.
Related: Symptoms of Bad Shock Absorbers
Can I Replace Shocks or Struts Myself?
It depends. Replacement of shocks is pretty straightforward. The hardest part will be dealing with possible rust or seized bolts due to them being exposed to the elements. But you can easily save a couple hundred dollars off typical shock replacement costs.
Struts come as either individual parts or complete assemblies. If the spring is separate from the strut, a spring compressor is required to compress the spring for removal and installation. If you don’t know what you’re doing, the highly compressed spring could pop loose and cause a traumatic injury.
Struts that come as assemblies are much easier to replace since the spring is part of the assembly. A pair of strut assemblies can be replaced by the average DIY mechanic in 2-3 hours. But if the spring is separate, it’s best to let the professionals handle the replacement.
Related: Shocks vs Struts vs Coilovers
The Wheel Alignment Problem
As already mentioned, an alignment should be done immediately following shock or strut replacements. Performing a DIY wheel alignment at home is technically possible, the results will never be ideal and the cost savings is minimal.
While traditional tools can be used, they require significant expertise to achieve accurate results. Modern vehicles benefit from the precision of laser alignment machines found in professional shops. A bad alignment can lead to poor handling and will accelerate tire wear to the point where you lose money for your efforts.
Given the complexity and precision required, wheel alignment is generally best left to experienced professionals (there’s an art to it). Some service centers even offer lifetime alignment services. While DIY enthusiasts may be tempted to tackle this task and learning new things is always good, the intricacy involved and possible consequences suggest that professional alignment is the better option.
Cost Savings Tips
While maintaining your vehicle’s suspension is crucial for safety and performance, there are ways to manage the costs of shock and strut replacement:
#1 – Compare Quotes
Get estimates from multiple reputable shops, including independent mechanics and dealerships. Consider driving a bit further out as costs closer to a city center will typically be higher that further out.
#2 – Consider Aftermarket Parts
Quality aftermarket shocks and struts are often less expensive than OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts and can offer similar performance. Purchasing the shocks or struts on your own can save some money but be sure to confirm you can find someone to install them for you (dealerships and most chains won’t).
#3 – Look for Promotions
Some auto parts stores offer free or discounted installation when you purchase shocks or struts from them. Keep an eye out for seasonal sales or special offers.
#4 – Bundle Services
If your vehicle needs other maintenance, such as a major scheduled service (e.g., 80,000 mile service), ask if the shop offers a discount for combining services.
#5 – DIY Installation
If you’re mechanically inclined, replacing shocks is a manageable DIY project that can save on labor costs. However, strut replacement is more complex and may require special tools. In addition, the spring on a strut assembly can cause severe injury if not properly handled.
#6 – Maintain Your Suspension
Regular maintenance, like keeping proper tire pressure and addressing alignment issues when they first appear, can extend the life of your shocks and struts.
#7– Consider Your Driving Habits
If you primarily drive on smooth roads, premium shocks or struts might simply be a waste of money as mid-tier components would give you the same results for less money.
#8 – Timing Is Important
Replace shocks or struts before they cause damage or increased wear to other components. This happens more often than people think.
Accelerated tire wear is most common, but issues with ball joints, control arms, wheel bearings, and steering components are all a possibility. What may seem like a lot of money now can quickly balloon to 3x that.
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I have a 2011 Santa Fe V6, 115,000 miles. I’ve just had the tire sensors replaced at $1,600 at the dealership. Due to clanking noises I took the car to dealership today ..passenger side strut needs replacing, both would need to be done. Quote is for $2,325.36. I really like this car, like the V6 engine, interior, etc. I don’t know of a reputable garage in my area, but could find out.
Would appreciate any thoughts.
Dealerships are way expensive for a number of reasons: they use all OEM parts and their labor rates are higher than most independent mechanics. If you get that work done at an independent mechanic, chances are good it will cost a lot less. I would start by getting a quote from a couple local garages around you to help make the decision.
I disagree with you, the other mechanic, mostly they`re charging close to the deal. And they give no warranty on their labor if you get your own parts, even if the parts came from the dealer. Just for that the outside mechanic is not worth it.
It’s more work for the mechanic if the customer sources their own parts. What happens if the customer buys the wrong parts? What happens if additional parts are needed? What happens if customer supplied parts fail? Not offering a warranty on customer sourced parts is actually a pretty common way to deter that, and some shops will not permit it at all in the first place.
Here in Las Vegas every auto shop wants at least $2000 to replace all four shocks and struts. Where can I find a shop that will do it for less? Everyone is so super greedy here. It makes me sick.
What is your year, make, and model? Some vehicles are more expensive to repair than others.
I was quoted $1,700 to replace front and rear struts (parts & labor) and the alignment on a 2018 Subaru Forester.
Seems like an OK price but I thought I’d throw it to the board to check?
Was this a dealership or independent shop?
I have a 2007 BMW 328xi. I’ve been quoted $2500-$2600 for the complete front suspension (control arms, struts, wheel alignment) plus an extra 500 for tie rods, inner and outer. It sounds incredibly high but I can’t seem to find anyone else in my area.
That sounds high but I am not as familiar with German cars. I would ask around on a BMW forum or Facebook page.
I have 2020 Jeep Cherokee Trail Hawk, that had Dobinson suspension, strut snapped after 7,000 miles, and punctured brake line, replaced strut and housing assembly and brake line in Houston Texas Clearlake Jeep Dodge, charged over $3,000 just for the right side, now left side snapped, don’t by anything from Dobinson, and avoid dealers. Went back to OEM both sides I see how long this lasts, after almost $5K just for the front.
I have a 2013 Jaguar XK that needs front shocks replaced. What cost should I expect
I think the parts on that car are going to be much more expensive than the labor. Expect to pay north of $800, but call around to a few shops who work on European cars for a better estimate.
How much would all the parts struts, shocks, tie rod ends, sway bar and the suspension cost. Throw much would labor be broken it down. For a 2007Honda CR V
Hi Bill, best to call a couple local shops in your area for an exact quote on this. That will get you the most accurate information.
Front struts for a 2015 Chevy Tahoe, they are saying $1876. This is the dealership.
That sounds high, but dealerships almost always charge more and OEM parts cost more than aftermarket parts.
Rockauto.com enter info. You’ll be surprised. Then YouTube it looking for your exact vehicle and procedure for the replacement. It’s not too hard. If you can do a oil change you can replace all four struts easily five times for what they are charging. Or look at Chris fix it on YouTube. He explains everything plain and simple.
I have a 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited AWD 3.5 V6. I have a quote for a complete replacement of both front strut assembly, and rear shock. Add in wheel alignment, tire rotation, and an air filter. My quote is 1700$. This sounded high to me,…opinion?
That sounds about right. That’s a lot of work that needs to be done.
Wheel rotation is usually covered for free by the place you brought the tires so check that. Wheel alignment costs around $100. Strut replacement for both front tires and air filter replacement are cheap and not that hard to replace. Rockauto.com for the parts will probably cost around $250 maybe $300 for everything. Look for the whole strut assembly including the coil if you do it yourself. Become self reliant, these auto mechanics are ripping everyone off. So total for everything will be less than $500. You can borrow basic tools from advanced auto or auto zone with a deposit so that can save money there but a few basic tools is all you would need if doing it yourself. It feels better in the end to fix it yourself. It’s self gratifying.
I have a quote of $1200 to replace both front shock &/or strut assemblies for a RWD 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Is this reasonable in the Las Vegas area?
Sounds like it might be a bit high, but since you said “&/or” I wonder if that is a general quote because they don’t know exactly which parts will need to be replaced until they take it apart. In the case where several parts need replacing, I could see it costing $1200.
Just do it yourself. It’s more satisfying knowing you saved hundreds or in your case probably close to a $1000. I just replaced all four of mine on a 2009 Ford Flex. Youtube it. It’s not as hard as you might think. Just get the pre assembled struts with everything all together from rock auto. It cost me around $300 for all four and took only a weekend.
Hi, I am glad I found this website.
I have 2009 Acura TSX 147k miles. I need to get front and back struts replaced and 2 tires with alignment for high $1400. Is this reasonable?
Thanks.
That sounds reasonable to me.
Thank you.
Hi, I got the estimate $800 of the replacement of both front strut assemblies for 2008 Toyota Corolla with 104K miles. The reason was because of the leaking on the strut assemblies. Is the price reasonable and is it ok just replace the strut assemblies not strut mounts?
Additionally, I also need to get transmission fluid, coolant fluid, break fluid changed. Do you guys think it’s ok just get them done at the place like Firestone?
That sounds about right. I’d defer to the shop whether or not those mounts need replacing. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t.
A fluid replacement at Firestone is probably fine.
Honda Accord EX 2003 – Front and rear struts replaced for Labor charge of $700.00 – provided my own parts (OEM equiv – Unitiy). Alignment not needed. – Running beautifully – feels like right out of the showroom. – no joke.
I need both R and L front struts/shocks/control arms replaced due to accident damage. Got an estimate of $1,200. Brand KYB.
Should I go ahead or shop around? Los Angeles area.
That sounds like a lot of work, so it may be a reasonable price. What year, make, and model?
2008 FORD FOCUS — WAS INFORMED I SHOULD GET THE REAR SHOCKS REPLACED SOMETIME SOON. EST. PRICE? WHATS TOO HIGH?
Depending on the quality of your shocks, I would expect somewhere around $500-800. Get a quote from the dealership, and you’ll know the high end of what you can expect to pay.
I have a Kia Forte 2015, my brother suggests struts and shocks. I am no where near as “rich” as he is. Hmmm maybe he’ll hep. He said about 1400. Too much for my budget if we want to pay mortgage rent and utilities.
I have a 2013 Chevrolet Traverse. Dealership quoted me a price of 4,000 to replace 4 struts, then dropped it down to 3,000. The same place replaced 2 of my struts the last week in Dec. of 2017. Now they’re saying I need all 4 replaced. What should I do? No shaking on oil leaks.
That seems awfully high. I’d get a second opinion.
Local Honda Dealer cost on a 2012 Honda Civic LX rear shock replacement was $380.00. Car has 85K miles. Required fix for state inspection.
Sounds about right.
If your mechanic allows you to buy your own parts check out Rock Auto. On my 2004 Ford Exploder it cost me only $100.00 with shipping for Motorcraft struts for the front since they were on closeout Private label package. I was afraid they wouldnt be Motorcraft since the Non private label package struts are around $200.00 each. But they are legit they just crossed off the Motorcraft engraving with an engraving gun. $100.00 a pair for the rears also all 4 are made in U.S.A that wasnt crossed out. But they only have a 30 day warranty compared to limited lifetime for the regular package with a ford sticker.
07 cadillac escalade replace cost for power running boards
07 cadillac escalade replace cost for right front shockv
Almost bailed on my estimate of $595 for 4 KYB’s and full alignment for 1999 Tahoe out the door. I though I was getting robbed until I read some of the costs here. Now I feel like I’m the thief. Also getting 4 Michelin Defenders first in Las Vegas.
That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
i’m in Vegas too, where was that?!?
My 2011 Ford Expedition XLT is bucking like a wild bronco. It has over 120K miles. Took it to the shop and was told I needed a full “Suspension Strut and Coil Spring Assembly” replacement in the front and back of our vehicle. They quoted me $4800, with the alignment and taxes. I declined the service and started calling around. They called me back and said they would be able to cut down costs and do it for $2250. Based on what I am reading here, this still sounds outrageous.
Sounds like a sketchy shop to cut the price like that. At the very least, I would get a quote from a different shop or two so you have a ballpark estimate of what it should cost.
The parts will cost a certain amount that usually isn’t too flexible. It mostly depends on the quality of the parts they’re buying. Labor costs a certain amount on top of that to keep the lights on and pay the shop technicians (say, $100/hr for sake of argument). If they are able to slash the price in half, know that they were probably overcharging you a lot in the first quote.
On my ’98 4 cyl Honda Accord 170K, it costs me about $400 dollars on labor to replace all 4 shocks and struts (SF Bay Area). The parts, KYB set, cost me $455, so a total of $855 + tax. I went to a place earlier that does lifetime wheel alignments, so I’ll get my wheels aligned there. I believe I paid $180 for a lifetime wheel alignment. Not sure how that compares with other people’s costs.
Hi, I just got an estimate for front suspension and strut replacement of honda civic ex 2011 w/ 89k mileage. Is this estimate ok?
Estimate is $1297. Labor alone is $675 parts are < $600
That sounds about right, depending on which front suspension components are being replaced at the same time as the struts. It adds up fast.
Thank you.
Michigan mom n pop shop quoted me $650 for Front Struts, No alignment. Honda Civic 07. I’m waiting on Midas to call back and give me an estimate.
Thank You
Rear struts replacement on 2011 Honda CRV $200.00 Labor, is that a lot?
That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I recently got an estimate for Rear Suspension Strut Asse, Front Right and Left Suspension St & Str, Strut R&R Both and Strut Assembly R & L Both on my 2010 Honda Accord with 74,000 miles. Parts cost $1,234.40, labor $455.96 for a total of $1,690.36. Doesn’t include taxes and shop fee. Is this a reasonable estimate?
That sounds about right (assuming the “shop fee” is nominal). That’s a lot of replacement parts.
I’ve been quoted $1400 for the following on a 2001 Honda CR-V….is this about right or too much?:
-Rear trailing arm bushes broken
-L/H/F link pins worn
-Front struts soft
Sounds a little on the high side to me.
Saturn Vue XE 2008
To change rear shocks
Remove rear wheels.
Shocks are insight o e bolt and nut on top of shock sane on bottom. Should take 30 minutes. FIRESTONE estimate
$450.00..Thats CRAZY!
My garage qouted me 800.00 per strut. Ouch.
Replacing struts on my 2014 Ford Expedition. Mileage: 28,000.
Was told my suspension was shot. It was very noticeable. What would your approximate estimate be?
Is 1260.00 a good price yo replace front struts on a 2011 kia optima EX 108,000 miles ?
That sounds pretty high to me. It may be best to get a quote from another shop.
It only cost 50 dollars EACH it’s an easy work 25 minutes to replace one
This is HIGHLY dependent on vehicle and skill of the car owner. You definitely don’t want a beginner attempting to remove a compressed spring.
When that spring releases it can lead to traumatic injury. They need a special tool to compress and release gradually.
Yes, you need a good spring compressor and some courage. I wouldn’t recommend this job for the inexperienced or faint at heart.
Just got a quote of 450 for struts on my Accord 2007 with 280k miles on it. Is it worthy?
That’s not a bad deal at all. As long as the car is running fine, go for it.
What is your estimate to replace struts on a 2009 mercedes e350 wagon 4matic
vehicle has 91000 miles. I hear squeaking noise after driving not in the beginning in the right front. A mechanic said he thought it faulty valving in the shock.
Check rock auto.com then YouTube the repair. It’s not hard and will cost a quarter the cost of these mechanics. I did all four on a Ford Flex for around $300. Just get the whole strut assembly so you don’t have to worry about messing with the coil/spring. These mechanics are ripping people off.
I watched YouTube videos on how to change shocks and struts and it looked VERY hard and dirty. Not something anyone can do. The videos were very intimidating.
Cost to replace front McPhersons and rear shocks with wheel alignment at dealership was $1,900. Even after 500 miles the rear of the car would “dog track” (sideways drift) when going over even slightly ribbed roadway. My brother was the first to notice this. On one occasion, the car almost jumped a lane which was a near accident. Took car back to dealership and was told both rear shocks failed. Really? Dealership fixed both rear shocks without extra charge. But, I am sure they had initially used cheap replacement parts, non-OEM. Beware, many dealerships are flat out greedy operations. If you can find a relatively honest independent mechanic, consider yourself lucky.
Great point. Dealership mechanics are still mechanics and some are better than others. Just because they work at a dealership doesn’t mean they are the best of the best. I doubt they used non-OEM since a dealer reputation is vital but a faulty installation is more likely.
after I replaced my shocks and struts, I can feel every bump on the road. there’s more noise and vibration coming from the front. Has the part really been replaced or did I get gipped?
This is normal for the first 100 miles or so as the parts get broken in. If it doesn’t improve, take it back to the shop but I doubt you’ll need to.
I am sorry to hear that. I hope your mechanics replace you some good parts. Some bad shops can just throw you some eBay china parts or something totally trashy and can jeopardize your comfort and safety even more worse than your 10 yr old OEM parts.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge and awareness to the community – Appreciate it
I was advised today after having my brakes checked that I would soon need the shocks and struts on my 2005 Honda Cr-v done, full set. I was given a parts and labor total of $1400 (not including supplies and taxes). With 111,000 miles on my 14 yr old vehicle, this would be the most expensive repair I’ve ever had. Although I am aware hiw important it is to have this done, for me, I’m not sure it would be worth holding on to this vehicle. I’m not a wealthy woman by any means and don’t know if it’s worth the expense since I’m not looking to keep this vehicle much longer anyway. $1400 is a down payment on a newer car.
$1400 sounds about what a dealership would charge. Go get an estimate from an independent shop. You should be able to get both sets of assemblies for around $500 at most. Labor shouldn’t be more than 2-3 hours.
i was quoted $650 for my front struts only from a mom n pop place. So maybe 1400 for a full set is right?
Hannah, it will depend on the vehicle and the shop rate.
If it helps, I’m getting front shock and struts for $690, rear shock and struts for $189, w/ front pads and rotors for $298. In Dallas Ft. Worth, using nubrakes.com.
How much would you be willing to dispose of it?
On a 14 yr old vehicle, $1400 would be priciest repair?? My 2010 has cost me $4k in repairs in just past 2 years… your post made me miss my Honda! 😉
Dated response I know but when I read anything this outlandish am prone to sticking my nose in a little bit….Your mileage is about right or a bit over for the swap-out and just gonna guess this is your Daily Driver right?
Even if you go to a mid-grade coil-over @80-90 bucks on all four corners (your purchase) and figure $300.00 for the labor and then $125.00 for the full alignment you are neighboring in the $800.00+ range. The coil over will save you money on labor v.s the spring compression segment because it’s fully loaded and more like a plug ‘n play.
The shorter response might be run don’t walk away from this shop and the gouge being presented to you. Oh just finished the four corners on a ’90 Accord with 70K in a coil over set-up for $525.00 via some liberal discounts. Deals are out there especially in the present day environment so ya need to shop the job around a little bit..
Agree. My 2000 Civic SI isn’t “cheap” with repairs here and there, but definitely cheaper than a car payment and hike in insurance rates. I only drive about 500 miles a month on average. On the rare occasion I need to make a road trip, I share expenses with a friend or rent a car.
My only issue is finding a mechanic I can really trust. Was going to a place I thought was good but A) things weren’t really repaired or B) each time I took it in, something else broke. Hmmm…
I’m now looking for shocks/struts replacement.
That is disappointing. It can be tricky to find a trustworthy mechanic, but once you do it’s worth it. If you have a friend who turns wrenches, ask him or her to evaluate the work that was done so you know it was done right at that particular shop. If corners were cut, keep searching. Good mechanics who do the job right are out there.
If the car is still reliable, I think it’s worth is the cost you don’t have to make car payments and if it’s a used car, you might run across other unforeseen problems. My car is over 20 years old (Honda Accord) and I’m sure I saved a lot of money not replacing my old car, it’s not pretty, but does the job just fine.
I have a 22 year old camry I agree with you
I have a 12 year old Chevy Tahoe with 145k miles. The current Kelly Blue Book value is between $7k and $9k. Even if I spent $3k, it’s worth having a safe car for another year or two (divide $3k with 24 months). Now there may be other incidental repairs but a newer pre-owned vehicle may have repairs over the next few years plus the monthly payment. So if the car still has a strong engine and transmission, which mine has, then don’t balk on the cost.
It’s true, I’ve rarely seen a used vehicle that didn’t need some work immediately after purchase. It’s often minor stuff, but it all adds up.
Find a different mechanic they are ripping people off for strut replacement. I just replaced all four on my 2009 Ford Flex for little over $300. There’s YouTube videos all over showing you exactly how to do this repair. It’s actually not that hard if you get the whole strut assembly from rockauto.com or a different auto website and find someone to do it with a few basic tools.
Got an estimate for alternator for 9 hundred my mechanic fixed it for 4 hundred. For struts no idea depends where you go. Friend just paid 8 hundred for 2 struts with labor included.
Appreciate the comment. $800 for a pair of struts sounds high but it always depends on the vehicle make/model.
As I look through the comments I realize what an Angel my mechanic is, I have come to him for the past 4 years and wouldn’t change him for the world, today on my way to drop off my kid to school I hear a loud boom, long story short… Took my car to him and he changed both rear shocks and struts for. + taxes + labor all for $525 , I don’t know if it’s because he has noticed that I am a single mother and could see the terror in my face when I went in this morning, all I can say is that I feel blessed 😇 his shop has the best ratings and it’s for a reason
Having an honest mechanic that you know you can trust is so important. Sorry your suspension went out but glad he got you taken care of for a good price.
Rear struts are cheaper than front struts.
$525 is great price and you please provide his contact info? thx
Where is his shop?
I just got quote of 600.00 pound to replace too shocks on xtype jag 2.5sport 05 plate is this average price
Sounds reasonable but I would call around to ask a few shops if you aren’t sure.
Today, I was just quoted $1700, parts and labor, to replace my front and rear struts along with a swing piece?
What is your make and model? Are they replacing the whole strut assembly (shocks and springs)? Any additional parts or labor?